Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 09:05 AM

Angry

Time out!

I thought the idea here was to have constructive dialogue.
Personally I don’t give a rat’s behind whether or not John is from the future.

I have enjoyed this discussion more than any I’ve been in before. First off why the personal attacks? I’ve mentioned before that this guy is a study in self control. He never sinks to the level of the aggressor, some of us could learn from that.

NEWS FLASH:
In case somebody here has not noticed!
When was the last time you spoke with someone as intelligent and well versed in these subjects?

I hope John or whatever his name is writes a book. I’ll publish him if he wants.

The story John tells is sobering, realistic, and ENTERTAINING.
The last time I looked participation here was discretionary. If you don’t like the subject, either question the guy, expose the guy, or leave the guy alone. Alternatively you can learn from what he says.
I don’t understand all the personal attacks.

Let’s say that John is a “confused person” would it not be kinder to help him regain his senses, than to attack him.

Let’s say he’s writing a book. Hey John “great story” when does the book come out.

Let’s say he’s a hoaxer and really enjoys deceiving everyone and lies all the time. Mr. Titor we have a job for you in D.C. after the “Neanderthal” gets voted out in 4 years.

I know people who would consider John’s world a reasonable improvement over what we have today. I agree with them.
If you had to guess what John’s political affiliation was what would you say?

Democrat
Republican
Libertarian
Independent
Conservative
Liberal

None of it fits does it? I have revelation for you This guy is “an American”.

As gloomy a picture as he paints, the society he describes is leaps and bounds ahead of us in their reverence for the Constitution which as John says we should all read.

JC has been on this guy’s case for a while now and I don’t see “Titor” insulting him or anyone else.

As to the frequency of the word “kill” in his posts. so what? it proves nothing and if you look at all the posts that statement is invalid.

Go read some of Ed Dames’s garbage.

I’m not here to defend John I’m expressing my frustration with the posters that derive their ego gratification by attacking others and hitting below the belt.

By below the belt I mean “unwarranted personal attacks”

Read the rules of this BBS, you’ll see that it’s supposed to be an open forum for “discussions from the other side of the fence” if you want namby pamby traditional BS go to the Rush Limbaugh show, or maybe you like born again Christian lies, Jerry Fallwell has a few books to sell you.

To the physicists and physics enthusiasts. Let’s see your proof, your CV, and your school transcripts. Do you want to talk about verifiable backgrounds?
Why don’t you subject yourself to the same scrutiny that you subject others to. Most serious physicists would be hard pressed to come “here” of all places and “demand” empirically tested responses from a guy who claims to be from 2036. Get a clue!

I suggest that if he is an attention monger hoaxer, he got you. He made you get flustered and loose your sense of decorum. Your folly not his.

Before I forget. Anyone who has been on the Internet longer than 5 minutes knows that spelling errors, and grammatical errors are not considered to be indicative of a person’s intelligence, or educational background.

No I will not engage in name calling on a personal basis, and I won’t respond to flame e-mails, and I won’t be posting any more in this thread. Some of you are childish and have a mob mentality. who wants to discuss time travel, physics, or the time of day, with a lynch mob.

Peace

[Edited by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 at 09:16 AM]

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 09:44 AM

“NEWS FLASH:
In case somebody here has not noticed!
When was the last time you spoke with someone as intelligent and well versed in these subjects? ”

Well… last time *I* personally spoke to someone about these subjects who is as ‘well-versed’ was about 30 minutes ago when I came from speaking to a couple of physicists upstairs. Somehow, I end up speaking to a lot of these types of folks (physicists) – I guess it might have something to do with the job I do for the government.

“The last time I looked participation here was discretionary. If you don’t like the subject, either question the guy, expose the guy, or leave the guy alone. Alternatively you can learn from what he says. I don’t understand all the personal attacks. ”

You’re right, however, I don’t think we are attacking him, we are QUESTIONING HIM. Somehow I always see this out of liberally-biased people, when someone is being quizzed, these liberally-biased people complain of attacks when they (or their heros) can’t answer questions to someone’s satisfaction. He has not answered questions to anyone’s satisfaction thus far. He has subjected himself to our scrutiny and you are jumping to his defense because you feel bad for him? Don’t. He put himself in this position. He is responsible for the questions, not you.

“Let’s say that John is a “confused person” would it not be kinder to help him regain his senses, than to attack him. Let’s say he’s writing a book. Hey John “great story” when does the book come out. ”

Not at all. John is not confused. John is also not a time traveler, but he has a fantastic imagination. That much is true. Political correctness is not my forte, nor do I profess that anyone use it anymore. It is passe. Sorry. PC is thought control, and being NICE to someone so as not to hurt their feelings is a by-gone thing, of another era.

“Let’s say he’s a hoaxer and really enjoys deceiving everyone and lies all the time. Mr. Titor we have a job for you in D.C. after the “Neanderthal” gets voted out in 4 years. ”

Hmmm… now, you bring me to the point of asking you – why are you now attacking the President of the United States? What has he to do with any of this? Why are you calling him a Neanderthal? Because your guy, Gore, lost the election? I’m sorry you feel that way, especially since you seem to think we ought to be nice to John and not attack him (even though we weren’t). You thought, more than likely, we should have been nice to Clinton as well. I expect you to act the same way as you expect me to act. Don’t attack the President (in particular since he has nothing to do with this conversation).

The one thing I can agree with you that was mentioned, that I didn’t quote here was the idea of spelling errors, grammer errors and such. I’m certain I have spelling errors. I have almost 21 years of hard-core “schooling” and I make serious spelling errors all the time. That includes over 9 years of college, thoughout which, writing was one of the most important aspects. We all make errors, in spelling… judgement. Perhaps we could all be nicer to those of us who make spelling errors.

However, Ernie, when one places himself up for study, as has John, then one needs to understand that there will be questions. These are not attacks (as your crude comments about the President of the United States were), but questions concerning his veracity. Question yourself, before you judge others motives. I’ve questioned MYSELF on whether I should even consider joining this discussion. I did so based solely on my inherit need to know about things like time travel. I asked legitimate questions. They were ignored, then later, when I asked others, they were skirted. John is therefore, either a liar, writer or a man who simply doesn’t want to get caught in a circle of lies from which he can not extract himself. That is too bad.

I really hoped it was the real thing, this time.

Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-14-2001 09:50 AM

This is no more then a comedy sketch thread now.

Keep it coming, it’s great material.

John, you ever consider doing stand up?

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 10:24 AM

http://pub2.ezboard.com/fmagisystemstimelordsanonymus.showMessage?topicID=53.topic

In case anyone is interested is looking at them.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 02:53 PM

Red face

Touche? Rick:

I would have sent this to you personally but you won’t accept e-mails. Your web site is unreachable. and ICQ is not an option for me. Do you actually use ICQ from work? where there is sensitive information?

I admit it was naive indeed for me to think I could get away with my last post without being taken to task for it.

So I hereby eat my words about not posting anymore. I guess that makes me a liar also.

Why did you assume I was directing my comments to you? my statements were not an indictment of your questions in particular. In fact I didn’t consider “your” statements as an attack at all until you called JT a liar.

I’m not defending Titor or his claims, he did not answer some of my question to my satisfaction either, but I don’t take that to mean I have license to call him a liar. Do you call everyone that doesn’t give you a satisfactory answer a liar? if so does that really make sense?

As to scrutiny being self inflicted. I have personal experience there also.

If you care to look. I make statements on my web sites that yield thousands of e-mails pro and con. I deal with controversial topics, I write about them, and I market alternative energy devices. I use physics in my work every day.

Can you explain the mechanics of creating a trans-dimensional vortex?

What would happen if you mixed equal parts 4oz each of: bronzing powder, epoxy, and bee’s wax,and NASA grade quartz, then into it you introduce a gold plated rod, introduce 2 coils, one on each side. Attach a tone generator to each coil reversing the polarities.
Then attach a power supply of to each tone geneator say, 12 volts / 500 Ma. Once the epoxy sets up.
Set one generator to pulse at 18 hz and the other at 11hz and pushed the on button? What would happen? any clue? If you could get this to spin at say 3600 rpm what would happen then?

What would the use of pi as opposed to phi in a formula for attenuating a static EMF do to a multidimensional construct?

If you could see zero point energy what color would it be?

Is there a sub-atomic particle that requires being aknowledged before it can be measured? If so explain why?

Why does water have molecular memory? If it does, does it mean we don’t need to use drugs anymore, and we can just charge water with a sample?

How is homeopathic medicine prepared? do you really believe that, a homeopath in Schenectady New York has the equipment to perform a 40 million to 1 dilution of a microgram of some substance with any degree of accuracy?

I have my fair share of supporters and detractors regarding my life work, and political ideology.
I have been called everything you can imagine that is unpleasant, by people that don’t know me at all. Excuse me if I take issue with this. Notice how quickly you labeled me a liberal. Why Rick? was it something I said? or did you make other assumptions about me? based on my profile? or my surname?

I don’t deny anyone’s right to say what they want. In fact I’ll go to the mat for free speech. That’s a basic right we have here in the U.S.

Your profile implies that you are a patriotic American. If so why don’t you see what Titor is really doing. Patriotism is something near and dear to me. My family has lost much in defense of idealism.

My family has been involved in the military, government, and diplomacy for 900+ years, in many nations where my ancestors have lived starting with Spain and culminating here. I take politics and politicians very seriously, and you should also since they are the manipulators of our society, and attempt to architect our way of thinking.

All I know about you is in your profile and your post. None of it is enough for me to feel the need to insult you, or be condescending to you as your post was to me. I don’t know you!

For the record.

I don’t think anyone who ran for office last november was worth a vote.

I’m not a liberal.

Gore was never “my” guy.

Clinton is no better no worse than any other politician.

If P.C. is passe why can’t I say the President is a neanderthal.

If you really like “guns, shooting” and you are interested in democracy, you should be reading the writing on the wall, like many other patriots.

In the not so distant future you may have to actually live up to the Patriotic ideal that gun advocates talk about all the time, and actually have to go out and defend the Constitution. Would you do this? I would, against all enemies foreign and domestic. This includes the governmet by the way.

I don’t think the enemy is “Black” or “Hispanic” or from the middle east. If you have to fight for your country and your family during your lifetime it will most likely be against Americans of all races.

The office of the President of the United States is the most important job on the planet.
Much depends on the President’s ability to think, and act in a decisive and clear fashion, our lives depend on it.

Although I don’t know President Bush personally, nor would I care to make his acquaintance.
It is common knowledge that in the brain department he is (let’s be P.C. so you don’t have a partisan fit) to say the least “challenged”. This is a matter of record not conjecture. Surely you are not going to deny that.

What would be your guess as to Dan Quaile’s IQ?
Would you argue that point of light?
2 less than brilliant people as President, and Vice President in a row says as much about Republicans, as the Clinton scandals, and Gore’s ineptitude say a about the democrats.

Can you honestly state here that in the last 8 years you did not voice any opinion about Clinton, or something personally disparaging about him or his wife. Did you ever call Carter a coward?

Did you just start your job at the government? if you started before the new administration why are you so quick to jump to your new boss’s defense and so quick to indict your previous boss?

If you could, would you debate the President on internal issues? or foreign policy? I would. According to the Constitution everyone is fair game for scrutiny “especially” the President.

A large segment of the population has become indifferent to the actions of the FED.
We are all going to pay dearly for acting like “sheep”.

Government Phycisists do not really discuss time travel with “System Engineers”. Unless they are just conjecturing to impress you, and don’t really know much more than you do.

If they did they would go to jail for telling you.
Unless of course you have adequate security clearance, in which case “you” would likely be in breech discussing it here. Moreover you would already know the truth about time travel, so there would be no point in seeking it here.

Working for the government does not of itself give you access to classified information. I worked for the government in the past and all it got me was an education in government squandering of taxpayer money.

You are a systems Engineer working for a government agency right? I have a 5 questions for you.
What happens to your budget next year if you don’t use up all of this year’s allotment?
What happens to the hardware that your agency replaces with newer models?
Have you ever performed a partisan task while on the job?
Have you ever made a political contribution to keep your job?
Have you ever used your office PC to surf the web for non work related reasons? See how easy it is to take a cheap shot.

It was government scientists that decided that Heroin addicts in methadone programs were being descriminated against when denied work driving Trains and buses, even piloting aircraft, or as air traffic controllers. The rationale was that since some addicts showed agitation, and others became lethargic, that in general Methadone does not have a deleterious effect on concentration, and coordination. They actually went as far as to publish that Methadone only has a placebo effect and does not produce a high.

Going to credibility and proof? Just how much is enough for you?

If I were to tell you a story that was fantastic in nature and read like a science fiction book. This story would relate meetings with high ranking Military officers, DOD operatives, The CIA. It dealt with UFO, E.T., global politics, and manipulation of the American press by foreign operatives in cahoots with the CIA. Would you believe?

I think not.

What if you were able to verify that all of the above actually took place by checking declassifed documents, addresses, military records, police reports, individual personal validation by witnesses, and the only thing you could not know for sure was what was discussed at these meetings.

Would you then believe? I doubt it, why? because the actual facts (the conversations) can’t be verified.

I have lived such a story and I know I could never prove it to anyone’s satisfaction, yet it really happened to me, I was nearly killed. I even have permission from the government to tell anybody I want because they know there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell that anyone (that counts)would believe it.

I have considered fictionalizing it but it irks me to have to lie so people will take me seriously. Since I don’t need the money, and I don’t want to have to respond to every question posed to me, intelligent or not, I choose to keep it to myself and my friends.

My point is that as hard as you try on this board, there is no way you are going to find the truth (about time travel at least)you are looking for until someone pulls up to you in a time machine and takes you to another time.

I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy, and Im prepared to back up all my statements. I do however require a certain amount of civility to enter into protracted debate, as I believe that the moment you lose perspective, the conversation becomes moot.

I do feel that some personal attacks are valid. If a person is harming others with his statements, and has been “proven” to be dishonest, and malicious in intent.
Like the President for instance
I have no problem with anyone taking them on on a personal level. I do it so I would be a hypocrite to expect others not to.

Again I appeal to you to e-mail me if you want to carry this any further we are off topic now.

Peace

Posted by Heather Cattles on 02-14-2001 03:40 PM

I have to agree with Ernie in some aspects. So what if you don’t believe he’s a true time traveller? Leave it at that. I’m always open to ideas, I neither poo poo them nor do I automatically say their true. I like to say I sit on a line between where I can go either way. I’m not frowned upon because I make descisons too fast. There’s a lot in this world we don’t know.. everything from creatures, to diseases to even time travel.

Personally I find this thread interesting, without a lot of the just totally putting John down. If you don’t believe him fine, leave it at that. John, you are an interesting person and I’m here and I enjoy seeing your replys, be it real or not. I’m just glad to see a person or two remaining cool in this and not going towards personal attacks.

John, if you are a true time traveller, when you leave to go back to the future, give my “Hello” to the future.

-Heather

Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-14-2001 05:13 PM

I feel my earlier questions were written without much thought. I have read all of your posts, and although I don’t ‘believe’, I do find what you are saying very very interesting. I would like to rephrase a few of my questions, In hope that it may make it easier for you to answer (feel free to just answer yes/no). I am mainly interested in the roles/parts Australia plays (as I live here) in the war and then the general way of life after the war. I understand you may not have much information reguarding other countries, but I thought I would ask anyway.

1) What role does Australia play in the war? You stated elsewhere that they repulse a Chinese invasion – Does this mean Australian government side with your enemy? (As I think I recall you stating that they allied with your side + Russia… Could be wrong though.)
2) Does intercontinental transportation still exist? If so, have you visited other countries?

On a more observational note, the world you describe reminds me of the post sacked Trantor in Asimov’s ‘Foundation’ series. And that makes me smile.

Thanks

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-14-2001 07:48 PM

Smile

John,

Why do you not answer people’s questions, but only answer certain questions that they ask?

Here’s a question, why not answer Rick’s Post? He brought out some good points, I’m sure there worth commenting on. And I’m pretty sure lots of people here would love to hear your input on them.

-J.C.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 01:09 AM

Well John, I imagine you are here gathering technology for the forces of “Good” – or at least for the forces of just plain old decent folk doing the best they know how.

Today’s news stories

“In a news report reminiscent of the days of the old USSR, Pravda recently claimed that Pres. Bush’s National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice, made belligerent comments about Russia to the magazine El Figaro. Only problem: Rice was never interviewed with El Figaro. Rice’s office tells NewsMax.com most of the claims made in the reports were fabricated.”

Any idea whose provoking this?

…and this one

“MOSCOW –– The Russian military held air exercises near Norway and Japan on Wednesday, forcing fighter jets in both countries to scramble and eliciting a strong protest from Japan, which said the planes violated its airspace.

Japan’s Foreign Ministry called in a Russian diplomat to protest and the defense agency said the Russian military planes violated Japanese airspace twice.

“Russia has sharply increased test flights of its planes since NATO’s campaign in Kosovo,” said Alexander Pikayev, a military analyst at the Carnegie Endowment’s Moscow office. “The military wants to show that it’s too early to write Russia off.”

“Whether they violated airspace of not, that’s not the key thing,” said Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst. “They were demonstrating the rebirth of Russia’s military might.”

Pikayev said Wednesday’s exercises may also be a response to recent signals from Washington that Russia no longer occupies a privileged place in U.S. foreign policy.

____

I got about 70-80% of your dimension ripping tutorial, BTW. Thanks

Posted by Chad Dirks on 02-15-2001 01:12 AM

Hrm, Mr. Titor, I do not believe anything that you have said, nor do I believe that you are in any manner what you claim to be.

…you are of course, welcome to hold the same opinion of myself, but since this does appear to be a forum for discussion, I shall try to lend what I can, yes?

(Please forgive my lacking grammar, and by all means, don’t feel forced to read or respond, this is quite lengthy.)

1. You have claimed several times that you will not participate in assisting anyone to get out of ‘death by probability’. Yet any number of the things that you have said could have already caused an individual to do or not do something that will now result in them either dying, or escaping death an otherwise fated death.

It does not matter whether or not everyone believes you. For every statement made there are people who believe you, and there are people changing their living patterns in response to those beliefs. There is no way for you know there is no future world leader reading this and believing.

————————————————————

2. You claim that you have no interest in proving to us that you are a time-traveller. To hear you take such a stance is laughable. Look at what a show you have put on here. Instead you tell us that you only wish us to make us aware of time-travel as a possiblity (see #1 again), or that you only wish to observe us and speak of cultural and religious issues, something interesting to a historian.

You came and posted on this site with one intention that was clear as of your first post: to make us believe that you are a time-traveller. You have continued this thread for that purpose alone, and I find everything you have done supports this.

As far as wishing to speak of issues regarding our humanity, or culture, it is quite clear that this is not your intention (contrary to what you insist). If you truly wished to do this your first line would not have been, ‘I am a time-traveller’. If you truly wished to do this you would not have continued this thread once you realized that line would not serve your claimed goals.

You certainly did not expect to examine our humanity or culture by first telling us that we would be disucussing it with a time-traveller. The entirety of this thread has been: you developing your story.

This thread that you have continued to participate in has gone entirely counter to your claimed goals, and it is obvious that you are knowingl fueling it in that direction.

————————————————————

3. “5100 I have now required a couple of special “tweaks” that had to be done by one of the software engineers in 1975”

“We need something portable. The 5100 isn’t required for its reliability, its needed to translate between APL, UNIX and a few obscure IBM mainframe languages.”

I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence ‘software engineers’, -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today. I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a ‘software engineer’ in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and ‘your time’, and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far.

Furthermore, I find the notion that one of a limited number of time-machines would be used in this manner to be nothing short of nonsensical. There are more effective ways to accomplish what you claim in this regard.

————————————————————

4. I have, and continue to believe Dr. Hawking’s view in regards to the possibility of time travel if indeed the model of time is what you have suggested, that all possibilities occur in different time-lines, in different universes is the way that time truly is. For this reason alone I cannot accept you. It is entirely logical, and I have seen no good case to counter it.

————————————————————

You claim that you have no desire to prove your story to us, yet everything you have done from the moment you first posted here has flown in the face of that. As I mentioned before, your desire is so strong that you have even appeared to become heated in manner in reaction to your validity being questioned.

What is more, you bring with you the claim that you will tell us no names, no locations, or any specifics as a result of your supposed ethics. If those were indeed the ethics you were committed to and reasoned with, you would not be here now.

However, I do commend you on engineering your story, as by its very nature we cannot prove it false.

[I realize that I am only feeding this frenzy, but that speaks for what it is and what Mr. Titor has indeed accomplished, it is effective in provoking a response, but then again, so is stepping on a rusty nail]

Mr. Titor:
====================================
I visit with a pink unicorn in the garden behind my house at night and it talks to me. I would show it to you but it only comes out when I am alone. Any attempts to trick it to do otherwise would be unsuccessful, but you are certainly welcome to try and prove what I say false.

[Edited by Chad Dirks on 02-15-2001 at 01:34 AM]

Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-15-2001 02:41 AM

Buddy.. listen..

This is for all you other believers to:

Time travel may be possible, but if you were to time travel, you would NOT land on Earth. You would land in a vacuum of space. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you’d materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is NOT Earth.. it’s space.

Get it? You’d be dead. It’s impossible.

Answer this factoid, John, and I will believe you until the ends of the Earth.

Posted by Dan Rouse on 02-15-2001 07:54 AM

Ryan…couldn’t distance be expressed as a function of time?

If that’s true, is it not possible that a time warp implies a space warp?

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-15-2001 08:07 AM

Heather, Ernie and others.. I did leave it at that. Haha. I posted my opinion. That’s all I was doing. For the record, I have answered Ernie’s letter offline due to the length of the response, and the fact that it is offtopic to a great extent, I did not post it here.

I have nothing against John Titor, Ernie or anyone else. I’m simply trying to get to the bottom of the story. Unless, and until John comes forward with more information, my opinion is formed and won’t change.

I did however, post pictures of his time machine (actually, I posted the link where you can find them.. let me be more specific, I’ve never seen this thing in peson, though I would like to see it).

If John wants a way to prove anything – which from his previous posts he has stated he DOESN’T WANT TO DO – then I am more than willing to look over his proofs. However – just because I were to look something over gives no more meaning to the rest of you than it would if one of you looked his stuff over, believed it then told ME.

You see.. we live in a time when we must see to believe. All of us.

I think the thread is very interesting myself. I think the guy that called us Sheep is wrong and it is folks like HIM that completely close off education and communication. *I* am not trying to do so. I simply made some statements that I don’t believe John is “for real”. If he is, I would love to know he is. However, so far, he hasn’t put enough evidence forward. So… PLEASE continue the thread and learn, if you can, the truth.

That’s all *I* want.

Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-15-2001 08:08 AM

It would be impossible to calculate where the Earth would be, either 30 years ago or 30 years from now.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 08:28 AM

Hi All

I can see why Mr. Titor enjoys this.

You guys are pretty passionate about your beliefs. Then again, that’s what its all about.

Going over a few of the posts, and I say that they are full of the classical – “I find it hard to believe, therefore I declare it to be impossible” – types of postulates. I can see the levels you are defining, in some cases, – and I can see that they are encompassed in possibilities you are not considering

Ex.

—I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence ‘software engineers’, -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today. I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a ‘software engineer’ in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and ‘your time’, and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far. —

Also, Ryan – I think John has provided some explanation regarding how positionings are affected by the mass and gravity of known OBJECTS. I would have to study the posts a little more carefully, though I would say that the variables used in computing projected postionings, rely heavily on detecting these known masses as opposed to trying to figure out where they would end up in space (and time).

One of the first assumptions I would discard is that physics suppositions are “either/or” proposals. My view (with a few years under my belt), is that things work more fluidly than that.

In viewing the following models take into consideration that the degrees I am talking about, are minuscule with respect to their effects on human activity – that’s why the “10%-15%” divergence over some 60 years, sounds OK to me.

If you looked at a weather system of HIGH and LOW pressures, and fronts, you would see isobaric “circles” that delineate common weather areas. Correlate these fields, as local “areas” or “eras” of time. Again the differences regarding how fast time “moves” in these “circles”, would be slight and perhaps unnoticeable. They would be enough, though, to provide “circles of common interaction” and (significantly, I believe), would also provide some sort of common playing field or “fabric” – for all the individuals within that area. Moving into other regions or circles, would be fluid transistions (as opposed to “either/or” transistions). I believe such a move would also precipitate new experiences. You might then have to deal with, what Terrence McKenna termed “DEGREES OF NOVELTY AND HABIT”. Moving into other “topographical areas”, you would also have to “shift gears” … your “sense of timing” would be a bit off, until you either found some groove of activity that you could fall into, or until you could create new ways of “being” and acting, to handle the new circumstances. The effects of novelty could be noticed in little things like misteps and mistakes, or unintended synchronicities that might seem to alter your path. The effects of falling into normal routines would soon cause your new environment to loose its “newness”.

Similarly, a geo-topological map (rings of altitudes) works the same in depicting (minor) GRAVITATIONAL fields. Again, I would think the degrees in gravitational differences, would be unnoticeably present, though present non-the-less.

Within these geographical “circles” of time, and gravitational pulls, people work out certain local and global destinies and intentions. These then cumulate into cultural topologies.

Given this model, the “degrees of separation” can only have extended effects depending on the interactivities of field compontents (you and me, or even other living things). John’s interactions on these boards probably have little effect on what’s going on in a small school room in the Ukraine, or a in hospital grieving area outside of Tokyo, at this very moment. They might have more of an effect on how you handle you’re work day after spending a morning reading posts, though. They might even have an effect on how a co-worker or fellow commuter handles their evening after they’ve been around you.

Discussions regarding such potential realities do seem to be a good way to get people to think – Its about time, after all <g>.

Posted by Lee Heggy on 02-15-2001 08:31 AM

It’s very possible to calculate such coordinates but you have to have a reference point to start from that is static in relation to the motion of the solar system and the rest of the universe. We know what direction we are moving in. You merely have to plot the points along that linear track. You would also want to be very careful and exact or you would end up inside of a cow or worse.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-15-2001 08:31 AM

Actually, Ryan, that isn’t true.

I can, given the right software not only calculate the specific location of the earth 30 years ago, where it will be thirty years hence.

Based on the presumption that the sun is sitting still you can calculate the precise location of the earth at any time.

Given that the above is not true – that is the sun is traveling through space at several thousand miles per second, as well, as the planets moving about it, and the entire arm of the galaxy in which we reside is moving as well… it is more difficult, BUT not impossible.

As Captain Kirk once said to his crew after the battle with Khan, “he is thinking in two dimensions only”… we are thinking in three only. The fourth, time, is traveling away from us as precisely the same rate as it was a few moments ago. Given this we can calcuate the exact location based on several factors, knowing the current location of the sun, the past location of the sun and then figuring the future location of the sun.

Given this, we know that our Eart travels in an ellipse around the sun at a given speed over 365.25 days per year. That tells us the Earth will be in a specific location 30 years from now.

Personally, I’ve taken tracking programs meant for satellites and calulated the projected location of Near Earth Asteroids several times. If *I* can do it, certainly an advanced computer from the future can figure out where we are now.

Rick

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-15-2001 10:05 AM

John,

How would someone that came here with no money all of the sudden have plenty of money now? You could have brought the lowest denomination coin of your time with a mint mark anywhere after 2001 and probably convinced almost all of us. At least some people. It would be hard to fake.

Posted by Simon Wiggins on 02-15-2001 10:35 AM

Cool

(1) Simply inscribe your knowledge of any large scale events (disasters, discoveries, etc etc) over the next six months (there should be at least one memorable example) into a text file.

(2) Encrypt said text file.

(3) Give text file to a custodian. I sure Art Bell would volunteer, he’s very interested in time travel.

(4) In six months time give Art the encryption key and he can reveal what you said.

Easy !

It doesn’t affect any timelines for that covered six months.
Art can’t peek, even if he wants to, which he probably would.

Thanks,
Simon.

Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-15-2001 10:41 AM

Does anybody here remember Marc Wade from the old BBS board. He was the first time travler, if I remember right, he talked of a future solcialistic, self supporting society as well, a ww3, millions die, and so on, but I can’t remember what time he said he was from.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 11:12 AM

I also remember “The Sun Is Not Real” in which a poster had me in stitches with his theory that the present sun was switched to a holographic representation, in the late 70’s? early 80’s.

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-15-2001 11:40 AM

Mr. Murphy —

If you are standing still on the surface of the earth, does the earth move away from you as the years progress?

It is not neccesary to calculate and then adjust for the exact location of the earth realitive to some static frame of reference like the center of the galaxy or some magic ‘origin’ point. Everything is relative. A TT blessed with a TT-device capable of traveling through time while standing still relative to the earth wouldn’t have to worry much about where the earth would be 30 years into the future — because he and his device are already moving in such a way that he will be in the same place 30 years down the time axis.

Of course this is assuming that einstien’s physics was at least accurate enough for such purposes. That is yet to be proven, but it has held strong for more than half a
century, as a general case.

But the reality that makes his theory seem to work makes you argument next to moot.

John T. —

Are we having fun yet?

How ’bout some philosophy.

What is your conception of the nature of reality?

Is it subjective or objective?

Is there one grand reality, or is it ‘to each his own’?

Do you think there are any absolutes? If so, in which contexts?

Things of that nature . . . has our understanding (on the level of society you fit into) changed in these respects?

Does sin exist?

What happens when you die?

Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera . . .

— Randy E.

P.S. — Personally, I don’t understand why it is so important to the people who post here that they believe you . . . communications, such that they are, make perfect understanding between individuals dicey at best . . . how can I be sure that something that is in my ‘reality’ is in yours? How can anybody be sure of anything? Keep thinking . . . and perhaps, share your thoughts with those here which read first and write later.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-15-2001 11:45 AM

Smile

Hi all:
I’ve read Rick’s note and thank him for it. I have no animosity towards Rick or anyone else. At the risk of being corrected I believe Rick and I have worked out our difference of opinion. At least to my satisfaction.

bye for now

Posted by John Titor on 02-15-2001 12:07 PM

My Motive:

I’ve been in your time a bit longer than I had expected. My next opportunity to go home comes in the spring. For most of my adult life, I have read about, wondered and debated about this time. I value this opportunity to share experiences. If you absolutely believed I was a time traveler, with no skepticism whatsoever, then we would be unable to communicate. The focus of our attention would then always be on the machine. The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just as valid as mine and just as different. I hope to return home with a better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do. Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I won’t gain from any communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture predictions. Please do not assume I am purposely avoiding questions. I am human, I get tired, and I forget things. Please, just remind me if I missed a question and I will get to it.

I do have one tip though. If you want me to go over your post in detail put, “Hey John, you’re a big Jerk.” at the end of the insightful and logical part, not the beginning. In fact, maybe you could just abbreviate it and put a number rating from 1-100 next to it so I know how strong you feel. Something like, HJYABJ (78). It would save space.

The Physics of Time Travel:

ACCELERATION = TIME DIALATION
As pointed out earlier, acceleration will produce time dilation. This can be observed by the “twins paradox”. As one twin stays on Earth, the other twin in his accelerating spaceship experiences a slower passing of time. When he returns to Earth, he is noticeably younger than his twin who aged normally in Earth time. This type of “time travel” (should have been proven already on this worldline) with atomic clock experiments. With sufficient power, this type of time travel will only provide practical displacement in a future direction. This type of time travel is also isolated to a single worldline. You will not meet yourself.

GRAVITY = ACCELERATION
As Einstein pointed out with his STR, the effects of gravity and acceleration are the same. Therefore, you will experience the same time travel effects in the twin paradox by being close to a large gravity source. In the atomic clock experiments mentioned above, the reason there was a difference in time was not because the clock in the plane was moving, it was because the clock in the well was closer to the center of the Earth. Constant speed is not acceleration.

LARGE GRAVITY = STATIC BLACK HOLE
The next step is to find a large gravity source to use in your time machine. Static black holes provide this type of power. As one twin approaches the event horizon or edge of the black hole, the other twin will watch him as he appears to slow down. He will notice his twin’s watch run slower until it stops at the event horizon. The twin moving toward the horizon will notice none of this and see his watch running just fine. Although possible, a trip into a static black hole will not take you to another worldline and it’s one-way. The force of gravity will crush you.

ROTATING BLACK HOLE = DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY
Fortunately, most black holes are not static. They spin. Spinning black holes are often referred to as Kerr black holes. A Kerr black hole has two interesting properties. One, they have two event horizons and two, the singularity is not a point, it looks more like a donut. These odd properties also have a pronounced affect on the black hole’s gravity. There are vectors where you can approach the singularity without being crushed by gravity. (For those interested in seeing a graphic of a photon trip through a Kerr black hole, try here)
http://qso.lanl.gov/~bromley/nu_nofun.html

DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY = PASSAGE INTO ALTERNATE WORLDLINE
Another other more interesting result of passing through a donut singularity is that you travel through time by passing into another universe or worldline. Please see Penrose diagrams for Kerr Black holes or you can examine the calculations of Frank Tipler.

So now the problem becomes….where do we find a donut-shaped singularity?

A PONDERING HAWKING = MICROSINGULARITY
Steven Hawking proposed the existence of microsingularities that were created in the big bang. They were probably about the size of a proton and disappeared over the years due to an effect of radiation evaporation. (Yes, black holes do emit energy.)

HIGH ENERGY PHYSICS = ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY
When I first started posting online a few months ago, I said that major breakthroughs in particle physics were around your corner. Soon, CERN will bring their big machine on line and they will be smashing very fast and high-energy particles together. One of the more odd and potentially dangerous items produced from this incease in energy will be microsingularities a fraction of the size of an electron. (for those who would like to follow the developments at CERN)
http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Welcome.html

ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD
Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 – 500 megawatts), it’s discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

LOCALIZED KERR FIELD = TIPLER SINUSOID
By using two microsingularites in close proximity to each other, it is possible to create, manipulate and alter the Kerr fields to create a Tipler gravity sinusoid. This field can be adjusted, rotated and moved in order to simulate the movement of mass through a donut-shaped singularity and into an alternate world line. Thus, safe time travel.

I will continue with the individual posts next. Thank you for your patience.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-15-2001 12:42 PM

Question

Hi John:
Is this what I think it is?

ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD
Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 – 500 megawatts), it’s discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

It looks like a prediction. Is it.

Best regards,
Ernie

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-15-2001 01:04 PM

i would first like to state that i for one have never said you’re an idiot – i said you are aggravating. which is not really a personal problem w/yourself it is just how i perceive you to be. an adjective – not a noun.

this sentence bothers me:
“Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I won’t gain from any communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture predictions.”

so that’s what this is all about? you come here & want us to “help” you by asking questions.. so you can figure out how -we- percieve things & why we think the way we do but you do not recipricate the efforts. you only discuss things that you care about or that -you- think are important or that -you- think you will “gain” something from. seems rather -one-sided- to me.

you say:
“The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just as valid as mine and just as different. I hope to return home with a better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do. ”

so you return home w/a better understanding while we’re left here w/the same questions we had before? it doesn’t seem very beneficial to -us-..just to -you- (atleast from your statements).

-blonnie-

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 04:13 PM

If all the idealists who have traveled the path of confronting sceptics, were laid end to end … ?they’d be better off that way?

Where are we in the universe BTW, irrespective of our relation to surrounding physical masses.

The galaxy, and us with it, is traveling at ~ 390 km/sec. The Local Group, superclusters … and on out… how fast are they traveling? With respect to what? Last time I looked at the moon there were no strings attached either. It just sort of sits out there and whirs around, kinda like we do… or at least as I do. Pretty trick, if’n anyone’s asking.

John – Ever have any oldsters (60-80 year olds) come up to you and mention past correspondences?

Take Care All!

Posted by John Titor on 02-15-2001 05:06 PM

The following are personal rules I try to keep(unless of course they conflict with my secret agenda). I look forward to discussing any discrepancies you may find.

PERSONAL RULES FOR TEMPORAL DISCLOSURE:

(1). I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge.

(2). I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability.

(3). I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being.

BLONNIE:
Thank you for your persistence and patience. It would appear some of my more sarcastic comments are directed at you. They are not and I apologize.

((so i am asking questions that can NOT be changed. someone can not change the fact that “Girly G. Hottie” is the next big name in showbusiness))

Rule 3 – Your future is not unchangeable? Why couldn’t harm may come to a person if I define them as someone who will do something in the future? However, in this case, I just don’t know. I am not familiar with pop culture in 2001.

((“keep an eye out for so-and-so..they will rise to fame.” or something like that. we couldn’t -change- that..))

I find this an interesting point you’ve made again. Why do you feel that would be unchangeable?

CRAIG:

((Are you being obtuse about Bonnie’s inquiries for more personal reasons? Her logic is pretty sound, and you’re avoiding discussing some of the things that people naturally find curious about other cultures…))

I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you won’t be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine.

((What kind of music is popular, what kind of recreation is enjoyable, what holidays are important…))

I’m not sure if you wanted to discuss these or not. If yes, I will be happy to do that.

((Do you feel some pleasure in breathing clean air and not having to check a geiger counter every few miles?))

Yes I do. However there is a fear about being here that I can only define as uncertainty. When I walk around in 2001, the air smells clean but I wonder if it really is. In 2036, there is no gray. The air is either clean or it will kill you. That feeling is very overwhelming when I eat here.

((Are there people in this time period who are hip (aware) of Time Travelers and who accept you as one?))

I have a very few precious relationships with people online who accept me as real or crazy and don’t ask any questions. Much of my email flows through them. My parents are the only ones that have access to everything I could use to prove who I am.

((I would imagine there are folk in our time, who travel in different circles (out of the mainstream), who have some money and/or some power, and who know things that the rest of us do not. Are you, or others, in touch with people like that? How ARE you financing things?))

I have taken very clever and reliable measures to go undetected. Yes, there are probably people like that but I am not in active conversation with them. My expenses are not that large. I spend a great deal of time now archiving.

JEFFERY:

((I spotted few typing errors in Johns comments so I will assume that he has had an average education by our standards))

You must be energized and anxious to improve your education system then. Please tell me what you plan to do.

((1. Name the immediate political succeosor’s to George Bush and Tony Blair.)) – RULE 3

((2. Name any human being/animal/invention which became famous from obscurity prior to today (This is really easy, just name anyone who shot to fame for anything – provided they are completely unknown now, and that it happens soon).) – RULE 2, RULE 3

((3. Name any near future shock event that makes history – political assasinations, inventions, marriages etc, same rules – it should happen soon with nobody having a clue it was about to happen (exept maybe time-travellers).)

You mean other than the mad cow pandemic, the breakthroughs in high-energy physics and the unknown functions of the 5100? I realize I’ve only been on this board for a few weeks but I assume you’ve read the other postings I’ve made about these issues months ago in order to be so definitive.

((4. If you are older than 36 then there should be 2 of you here right now. You would both possess the same basic fingerprints and DNA. If you really want to prove your case then meet up with your younger self and get some police evidence.))

I am with my younger self. I don’t have a case to prove and I wonder how many needles I would be on the receiving end for that one. With your superior education, I assume you already figured out that pretty soon someone might try that with a clone. Be careful what you take for definitive proof.

ANGEL:

If he had a time traveler line open would you call in?

((How long will you be here in 2001? When are you going back?))

My first opportunity to go home is this spring.

((What all are you taking back with you?))

A lot of hard drives filled with books, archived web sites, pictures and audio files. I’m also taking back family items that were lost in the war.

((Is propane still around in the future?))

Yes but not very much of it comes from natural gas. Hydrogen is converted into propane because it’s easier to handle.

ROY:

((I would hope that the paradise I live in would somehow be spared (the Hawaiian Islands) but I suspect it would not be spared as a strategic target for obvious reasons))

My parents went to Hawaii on their Honeymoon. My dad told me a quick story about going to a fast food store and paying 6 or 7 dollars for a hamburger. I got an image in my head of a huge tanker filled with frozen hamburgers headed into the Pacific. Hawaii is very dependant on the mainland for food….isn’t it?

Thank you for your kind words.

MIKE:

((Logically though the revelation of his TT ability still makes no sense, as he could easily question people of this time and get all sorts of info without revealing himself.))

Medium like the internet offer unique opportunities for communication. When I return, I will be debriefed on my opinions about how people in 2001 will accept time travelers.

((So that leads to the question why would he reveal himself if he has no stated aganda for doing so?))

I’m not sure I exactly said that.

((2. John came here to give somebody a “Back to the Future” type of push so as to invent the Time Machine. (My opinion on this is that no one needs to “invent” the TM because if is has been built in the future then it has always been invented, and we are merely waiting for someone to “discover” it. Just look back at most of the major advancements in science, almost every invention of science already existed, it only needed people to put it together.
About the only things humans have invented deal in the arts. Music etc. This opinion comes from the “all times exist at once” theory.))

I find this one the most interesting. What do you think would happen if the United States, China or Russia suddenly developed a time machine and the rest of the world found out about it?

MY FRIEND JAVIER:

((…he does a maneuver that focuses the question back to the receiver, as to have him think it’s been answered, and to shut him up. (Which in fact, he just avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He does this very often, and I’d just wanted to point that out before he did it again.))

Hmmm….I am forced to admit I must rethink what I know about Mobius loops.

ANDREW:

((1) Does the last name hubbard have any historical(is that the right term?) relevance?))

You may leave a message to yourself if you wish.

((2) What happens with Australia? does it play a major part in the war?))

I believed I wrote about Australia a bit earlier.

((3) What colloquial language is used in the future?))

Many people use the internet for communication and entertainment. I would say that affects our speech. We type very fast.

((4) What exactly happens to the water? does it get poisoned from radiation?))

Yes, radiation affected the water but that can always be distilled out. There are biological hazards that cannot. In addition, fresh water is hard to come by without talking to someone with a gun first.

((5) Have you actually met your parents? if so, what are their thoughts on you? ))

Yes. I am with them now. I would say it’s a combination of fear and relief.

((6) Does time have ends?))

Yes. It is believed that all worldlines end. It is also thought that parallel worldlines that appear to be the same end at different times.

((7) Lets just say that people from the future are manipulating events now, such as preventing a tragedy, making it never occur. If it never occurred, no body would be sent back to stop it, which would mean that the event does take place. This would lead to the prevention of it happening again, and so on. What would happen in one of these situations?))

Based on my understanding of time, manipulation of your worldline by future time travelers would have no affect on their original or home worldline. If that is happening, it must be for a desired outcome or result on your worldline only. If UFOs are time travelers, they plan on reaping what they sew from you not their home.

RYAN

((John, if you really did travel through time you’d be dead. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you’d materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is the vacuum of space.))

This is an excellent point and one I thought I went over a bit earlier. There is a gravity lock system that compensates for the local gravity outside of the Tipler sinusoid. This is the reason the unit is only accurate to about 60 years.

RICK:

((Specifically, you stated my questions were “rather specific” and you’d be “love to discuss physics and happy to walk through the operation (I assume of the machine)”. A few lines later you state (after me saying you should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you’re operating) that you do know much about it, but you’re not willing to share it with everyone. So… which is it? Are you willing to share information on the operation, a walkthrough of the machine, time travel… or AREN’T YOU?))

I suppose I am thinking about the physics and the engineering as separate subjects. I apologize for the confusion and I will be happy to answer your questions more directly.

((I asked legitimate questions. They were ignored, then later, when I asked others, they were skirted.))

Perhaps we could just start over again?

ANDREW:

((1) What role does Australia play in the war? You stated elsewhere that they repulse a Chinese invasion – Does this mean Australian government side with your enemy? (As I think I recall you stating that they allied with your side + Russia… Could be wrong though.))

There were deep divisions in Australia also. I would associate it more with a powder keg than a civil war.

((2) Does intercontinental transportation still exist? If so, have you visited other countries?))

Yes, but the market is much smaller. No, I have not been overseas.

Page 12 on coming…

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-15-2001 07:53 PM

Wink

John,

What state do you live in now in 2001?

Is John Titor your real name?

What do you look like? Post a picture of your self.

What is your secret agenda?

Is this dialogue between people in these posts part of your secret agenda?

Does your younger self realize what you are?

Are you married?

What rank were you in the Army?

Where did you go to BCT?

What company were you with, and what year did you graduate from BCT?

You have any fears? If so, what are they?

What are the rules for fraternizing with people who aren’t from your time; do you make friends easily here in 2001?

What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?

What would you do if someone attempted to investigate you? Hundreds of people go through these forums a day I’m sure. Some of which can be government. Aren’t you at all worried that it’s only a matter of time before you are found out?

And you said; “I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you won’t be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine.”

Can you elaborate further on the matter?

I appreciate you answering these questions for me John, and thank you for calling me your friend .

-Javier C.

HJYABJ 100

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-16-2001 08:00 AM

John,

I want you to understand something – since you’re using our discussions to make a determination of our thinking for when you go back. Understand that I don’t think you’re a jerk, but I believe you to be a “false time traveler” at this point. HOWEVER, I will say that you took the time to post some information that DOES answer some of my questions. Your disertation on physics (at least in a small way) confirms a few things that I think are relatively accurate.

Are the pictures (at the URL I posted a couple days ago) YOUR pictures of your time machine? (http://pub2.ezboard.com/fmagisystemstimelordsanonymus.showMessage?topicID=53.topic)

I’m going to help John answer a question that someone else asked. “What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?”

John would be grabbed by government federal agents and held incognito until a determination could be made based on national security. He certainly would be at risk of his life in “all probability” because he IS (will be/was – put in any decriptors based on tense you wish) a threat to national security in “our time”.

Here is why. John claims to come from a different time, our future time actually. Even though it is perhaps a different time thread, or time line, he could affect the outcome of our own future either through active participation or negligent participation. In other words, Johns actions could conceivable make a difference what happens. This is the main reason he is following some very specific “non interference” doctrine.

The very fact that John has made himself “visible” to the users here makes him a target. Believe it or not – *I* work for the government. I work in an area that, while my particular job has nothing to do with this, am extremely interested in his statements. Yes – we in the government DO watch for things like this. However, rest assured, if I went to the security office and said “I have access to a time traveler” I’d get laughed at. I’d have to get in touch with the “right people” to “report” the incident, and even then the skeptics would over rule the “believers”.

What this means is, even though John could be consider a national security threat, he certainly is safer than even me, who works daily in government facilities.

Now that I have admitted my “government participation” let me tell you MY motive. Time travel. Afew days ago, someone sent me a copy of a time travel ad. I was intrigued by this. The ad, mysteriously appeared on Art Bells site last night. (Go there and look at it – you will see precisely what I saw). I have drafted a letter indicating I’m interested. Yes, I have my own weapons (and a family, grandkids and kids ) but… if I had a chance to go back in time, I would take it. Assuming I could get back. haha.

My problem is that I would “interact” I believe. I would find the idea of interaction almost irresistable, which I would assume is one of the things psychologists would have a problem with time travelers in any case.

The US government… Russian or any other, would be in the same boat. They would, if they could believe it, GRAB and hold time travelers – checking the veracity of their stories and preventing them from having any interaction with anyone.

Sound about right John?

I have a distinct feeling that I want to “believe” that John is truly a time traveler. The reason is simple and probably selfish. I have always said I want to live to see the ripe old age of 200. I MIGHT make it to 150 given todays medical advancements. If so, I have around 107 years to go. I can’t wait to see what the future holds.

I want to LIVE time though, I don’t want to go to the future and not be able to get back to my family and friends. I want to see that something so fantastic and so outlandish that it is science fiction right now, come true.

Those are MY motives for being here, chatting about this.

Granted, there are deeper, more scientific discussions on other boards and elsewhere in the scientific community, but they are “deeper” than I wish to delve. John has given me at least that tiny hope that somewhere out there, on some time line, someone will indeed do what we’ve been believing all along.

So – John, my comments about being fraudulent – please don’t take them seriously and please do not think I have anything against you personally, nor wish to discredit you. I only want the honest truth.

If you tomorrow, said, Rick, this was an experiment in psychology, writing, or fantasy – whatever, I would not be surprised. If I had a way to prove you were truly a time traveler – that secret would be safe with me (as would anything else you told me). See, I believe in America, and I believe in Freedom.

I believe if you’re really what you say you are – then you’re a hope for the future. Even if there is ‘civil war’ or nuclear war – people like myself are already prepared for those things.

Whatever comes of this… best of luck in either your studies in psychology, time travel or writing. I’ll be listening in (and commenting) from time to time.

Rick

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-16-2001 10:26 AM

Thumbs up

Hi Rick, John, all:

I also found John’s post regading the specifics to be beyond much contention. My scale is tipping toward belief.

I’ll say this much. The descriptions John provided are much more convincing than his ability to write a given equation. I think I understand why Rick was impressed as I know a bit more about Rick today than I did 2 days ago I mean his technical background.

Here is my opinion.

John thus far has demontrated the following:

Ability to discuss physics that seems to rise (eventually) to the level of the question posed.

High degree of intelligence.

Has not wavered in his ethical assertions regarding (verifyable) disclosure of future events.

No interest in making money for this (so far)

Continuity of statements (not 100%, but he’s human)

Accurate cultural behaviour for a person from the world he claims to come from.

Has “I believe” made more than 1 verifyable prediction. (I think) correct me if I misunderstood his post.

Patience

A degree of loyalty to his country, and for democracy not found every day. He has read the Constitution and understood it. IMHO

Hinted that he may have had something to do with recent events that did not come to pass.

An accurate depiction of the climate that would escalate to the wars and events he describes.

Made statements that contradict many other Time Traveller’s
Statements.

Has attempted to answer most of what is asked of him.

The ability to accurately relate a story as if he had been there.

A great deal of self control when “questioned”.
(for you Rick

In general has been a very good thread host.

None of this proves he’s a time traveller, but it does prove to me that I should continue to read the posts, and ask further question.

As someone recently mentioned a preponderance of circumstantial evidence builds credibility.

I have a question for John:

John, what would it take to get you to stick around after spring and leave during the next window of opportunity?

I fear that another month or 2 may not be enough time to get as much said and discussed as I would like to have.

Regarding the photos. I have asked 6 friends that have been in the military and “whatever” the device is in the photo looks very authentic. The manual also is what you would expect from the military. The revisions on the cover page look normal for such a manual. Maybe Rick can take a close look at the photos. Has anyone done any imaging on the photos to make the individual controls on the “machine” more visible.

In your “world time” have things like “Saquatch” , “Loch Ness monster”, and other reported unusual animals been seen, or captured or explained away.

Is remote viewing used to gather military intelligence?

Are psychics still common? are they used by the government?

Is there a Police Dept as we know it. Have any of your top leaders or politicians been jailed or impeached?

John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?.

John please respond to my question as to “the prediction” did I jump the Gun? (get ahead of myself).

One final question? Is there a Global Superpower state and what nation is it.

Best regards,
Ernie

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-16-2001 10:48 AM

I think I understand. I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period. You would know, and I guess no one else has to. Let me see if I get this. You tell me about a new cultural fad – for instance, let’s say Czech Dance Wear, becomes chic. I keep my eye on trends, and invest, in a way that benefits me, at the exclusion of someone else. OR I open a shop that begins the trend and then trend burns out sooner than it otherwise would. Then you, on your time-line, notice, when you get back, that the weekly dance at the local Youth Hall is no longer centered around Czech Bouncing, for the summer of ’36. Instead, for some quirky reason, Cowboy Line Dancing appeals to everyone for a few weeks or months during this period. Otherwise everything else remains relatively unchanged.

Please answer this question to the best of your ability to assist us. I’m a big believer in grassroots resourcefulness, and its power in creating discerning situations that test people’s willingness and ability to make their own way.

It seems to me that with the cities under such stresses, people would flock in large numbers to remote areas like Winnipeg (sorry guys) or some other region with plenty of clean water, air and soil. Why is this such a nelected fix? I would also imagine that the network of Intentional Communities (communes?) that took root over the years, would provide infrastructural support to a nation needing to find its “FOXFIRE” roots.

If I was transposed to the 1920’s or 30’s, you would have a hard time keeping me off the streets, out of public places, shops, concert halls, etc. just trying to take it all in. Ditto with just about any other time and place.

Which reminds me of an old story about the TT who saw a sign outside a restaurant that said “Breakfast served any time”. He eventually settled on eggs benedict during the Renaissance.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-16-2001 11:35 AM

It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site were posted by an “anonomyous time traveler” some time back. It fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted the pictures. If he didn’t post them, then he is using them for the basis of his story.

Regardless of the two supositions above, the device appears to be “authentic” to me. I have some experts looking at the manual and the pictures as well – for obvious reasons, I won’t tell you who because they aren’t aware of this discussion and I don’t intend to tell them about it.

I am extremely familiar with military spec equipment in many forms, more specifically communications systems of various types. I have never seen this particular item (in my time… ) nor anything vaguely resembling it. HOWEVER, it does have the look and feel of a piece of gear produced by a large corporation for the military.

John – in looking closely at this device, I see there is a hand control unit – with some sort of screen on it. I assume this is the computer interface through which the device is programmed (or time settings are made). Is that an accurate assumption? What does the display show you (for instance, does it simply show things like time/date calculations, or radiation [probably wrong word] of the fields from the device?)

Also, there are 16 apparent buttons. I have to assume further that these are multifunction keys (that is you press one for an alt/control function and other buttons have names or labels and perhaps even numerical meanings). Is that also accurate?

thanks

Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-16-2001 05:38 PM

At the very begginning of this thread, I was very skeptical. Who wouldn’t be on a topic like this? However, I find myself believing it even more with each page. What I find strange is why so many people don’t believe. I think we’ve established that a majority of us do believe time travel a possibility. Most of us also believe that the human race does indeed learn how to travel to time sometime in the future. If we believe this, then why do we find it so hard to believe that there are people from the future among us? If John is not a time traveler, then he’s a **** good lier. There are minor flaws in his stories, but I think there are more strengths than flaws. Maybe I just believe his story because I want to (selective belief).

As for the issue of security, I think Rick covered it all. I don’t think the government would be as open-minded to this topic as some of us. Unless John proved he was a time traveler, I don’t think anyone will be using his IP to track him. Which is a reason I don’t think John can be proving to us that he is indeed a TT. (Maybe that’s one of the lessons in TT training.) Unless there is a branch of the FBI similar to the X-Files, I doubt anyone will be knocking on Johns door anytime soon.

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-16-2001 08:48 PM

So John, when do you plan on answering my questions?

Is there a problem in answering?

Please let me know…. I await you.

-Javier C.
Sysop: We do not provide links to other boards, Sorry. Peace, Mary

[Edited by Mary Rowland on 02-16-2001 at 09:19 PM]

Posted by Tim Utterback on 02-16-2001 10:17 PM

Wink

Hey John. If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance. Then baffle them with BS!!!

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-17-2001 12:10 AM

Man, that’s the second time someones edited out my posts. But that’s not important, what is, is your answers John.

I’m still waiting. So far it’s been 48 hours. What’s wrong? Are you unable to answer?

Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-17-2001 11:13 AM

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, unfortunately Hawai’i is quite
tied to the fate of the mainland US in major ways. Efforts
at some amicable sovereignty are halting or stillborn.
Just wanted to recommend a book I think might tell you volumes about present macro socio-economic conditions that
lay the foundation for the evolving political divisions you
state lead to a civil war in the US in the near future.
The book is “When Corporations Rule the World” by John C. Korten.
While certainly not the only important work or view of this
present paradigm, behind the ‘sturm und drang’ of partisan
noise and distraction, this well-written and researched book
by a dedicated veteran of more than 30 years abroad in var-
ious aid and developmental programs aimed at Third world areas, squarely focuses on the escalating comglomeration of
power and money increasingly in the hands of the few and the
resulting loss of control over individual and community autonomy. Now, in the twilight of the 21st century, this locus of capital, political influence and media control is taking on a life of its own, out of the control of even those at the top of the command heirarchy, with concommitant
social decline, rampant environmental degradation, and of course the threat of war as a means both of deflection of attention on the real problem, and further dividing and conquering to consolidate ever more power. No black hats and white hats, per se, but more the result of unthinking accep-
tance of a certain economic model at the root.
This is why I feel there is a kind of inevitability to some
sort of wrenching change, whether or not it follows ‘your’
probable outcome. Another older book by a similar ‘dissoc-
iated’ entity that might interest you is “The Nature of Per-
sonal Reality” by Jane Roberts (circa 1979-80). From a ghost
no less! Both can be found at the public library, but are worth perusal. Submitted humbly in the spirit of apocalypse
or (Greek)- ‘unveiling’….

regards,

Roy

Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-17-2001 08:40 PM

1) would you be able to internationally travel by:
travelling to the year 2001, fly a plane to the desired destination, and then go to the future from there?

2)If each world line is seperate from the others, then wouldn’t the consequences of your actions now have no effect on your original worldline? If this is the case, why won’t you tell us things that will give us knowledge or let us avoid death? My only geuss is that you are not a time traveller, and don’t want to say anything that could make a gullable person do something stupid.

3) how can I leave a message for myself in the future if the things i do in this worldline do not effect the others?

Posted by Michael E. Hendrickson on 02-18-2001 08:03 AM

The falsity of your claims is revealed in your predicted scenario for our country in the years 2004-2012,i.e., a virtual collapse of our constitutional system into a waring
divide between the cities and the countrysides, with a farmer general leading the latter to victory in 2012, presumably, after a horrendous, internecine struggle. I believe in fact this describes a plot in one or more
science fiction novels written in the past 50 years.
This scenario could plausibly describe events which, perhaps,
might occur 100 years from now, or even much further in
the future, but most certainly not commencing a mere
three years from now. A breakdown of this magnitude would’ve
had to have been preceded by many more fracturing events other than Ruby Ridge, Waco,the Oaklahoma bombing,etc., over a much longer period of time in order to culminate in your predicted scenario.
Given what we know about our society today with its
very stable system of government(however else you may
wish to describe it), your prediction of its pending
disintegration, beginning in three short years, is utterly improbable, if not impossible. Hmm., I’m, trying to
think, was it Asimov or Kurt Vonnegut Jr. who originally authored this scenario? MH
P.S. The idea of a farmer general leaving his fields to
lead his country’s troops to victory is an old one going
back, at least, to Roman times. Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus,
I believe, was the gentleman’s name, from the 5th Century B.C. Roman Republic.

[Edited by Michael E. Hendrickson on 02-18-2001 at 08:28 AM]

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 11:06 AM

The recent film “Gladiator” featured Maximus a farmer general who defeated a “fictionalized” Commodus.

I guess if you asked Joseph Campbell there are only a few stories and all literature is the re-telling of the same few stories in different settings.

Boy saves girl
Boy saves the nation
Girl dies boy avenges
Boy gets girl usually another boy loses girl.
Underdog defeats the champ. David and Goliath, farmer general
Good boy goes bad
bad boy goes good
and a few more.
there are a few that’s all then we just enhance the content to fit our cultural needs.

Peace

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-18-2001 11:36 AM

Mr. Vega and Mr. Hendrickson:

The wonderful ability for the human mind to group things by simularities, generalize, and vaguely remember stories heard in the past exists.

But it is not conclusive proof of the falsity of anybodies claims.

I, as an attempted-authorer (pretty simular to being an attempted-murderer), have ran into the ‘universal hero myth’ dillema face to face, in mental combat to the death . . . and have yet to arrise victorious . . . but it does not mean I have no good stories to tell, nor that they are unoriginal. And it certainly doesn’t mean that any story I may come up with is most definetly not true . . .

I am fairly certain that proving anything is impossible. (By this I mean proving ABSOLUTELY . . . within certain frameworks, like mathematics, things can be proven . . . but in general? I think not. In what we call ‘reality’? I also think not. Life would be too simple.)

If this is true, and I think it is, it also follows that it is impossilbe to disprove anything — although the two are often different problems.

So the ongoing ‘discussion’ about the veracity of this TT’s claims is largely in vain. Good works may yet come from it, but I am sure there are better ways to spend this thread. John has already suggested this, it seems to me, and I believe it is everybody’s best interest to recognize that we have never been in the realm of absolutes and that the main goal here is the intelligent exchange of ideas, observations, insights and ‘feelings’.

Just because a plot appears often in the worlds portrayed in science fiction doesn’t preclude them from being what you seem to consider science fact.

Spacecraft are a prime example of this.

Timecraft ARE ALSO!

The mind is the ultimate vessel for any kind of exploration . . . lets please direct our miranderings a little more effectively even on this micro level, . . . if only to please my aesthetic sense!

I’m sure we will all be a lot happier and the fruits will then be better.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 02:56 PM

Cool

Hi all:
Randy, although I remain to be convinced as to the nature of John or his story. I have never said he was a fake or a fraud, or a liar, actually, I expressed frustration at the seemingly all important “is he or isn’t he” debate.

I propose that “what John is” is irrelevant to this conversation. What is relevant is the ideas, and very good technical information being discussed here. I can tell you that I’m sure that some of the posters know more about time travel and it’s why’s and why nots, than they did prior to coming here.

The real interesting conversation has been about the culture he describes, and the way they approach life.

My comment regarding story lines is accurate. It does not however, detract from any literary work. It also had no connection to John Titor, I was actually disagreeing with the previous poster that stated that the Farmer General metaphor somehow was indicative of deception on Johns part, or a weak link in his story. The Farmer General is nothing new. History is replete with Farmer Generals.

I was pointing out to him the “preponderance” of similarity that exists in the area of “plot development”. As an author you must have at times asked yourself if the scene you were creating did not sound too much like “this”, or “that”.

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify the point.

Oh one more thing.

You say
The mind is the ultimate vessel for any kind of exploration . . . lets please direct our miranderings a little more effectively even on this micro level, . . . if only to please my aesthetic sense!

Please excuse me if I misuderstood but neither I nor anyone else here is going direct their meanderings in any direction to please “your” sense of Aesthetics.
As soon as you become a moderator here you can dictate whatever you want. Remember that whatever you post will most likely get a response.

By the way “effective meandering” is a poor choice of metaphor, you see it’s a borderline oximoron.

Peace

[Edited by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 at 03:24 PM]

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-18-2001 11:04 PM

Smile

OK John, I know your playing this Machiavelli role again, of going silent and hiding. But just wanted to let you know, that when you do return, answer my questions first. I asked first. So don’t avoid answering my questions. Got that ?

-Javier C.

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 12:23 AM

Hello,
To John Titor:
I have found this thread very interesting. How far from what size city is it the safest to be? You suggest bicycle. What about horseback? Should we be stockpiling guns? What kind of people will be the ones least trustworthy? Is the conflict racial in any way? Does the civil war start in such a way that with this foreknowledge those willing will have time to remove themselves to safer locations. Will you readily be able to identify the enemy. Does living near a river with a distillation unit take care of water problems? How are the five people within the 100 miles contacted? Do communications stay intact. I have 86 acres on a river in Central California about 125 miles north of LA. I have geese, turkeys, horses, chickens, milk cows, good pasture, a well run by electricity, and a garden. I also have two teenage sons who are gun nuts. Plenty of rifles, semi-automatic and otherwise. Any comment on our chances or suggestions? My oldest son, 19, is joining the army for 3 years. Will he be asked to kill his countrymen?
I look forward to hearing from you.

Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 02-19-2001 01:22 AM

John,

Sometime earlier you wrote that there are no paradoxes in time tavel. I have a question regarding a paradox that I can’t seem to overcome. Maybe you can help.

People who posit theories of time travel generally write in terms of time travel in years. My problem deals with very short trips – the kind that early experimenters would most likely attempt (to avoid divergence problems if nothing else).

In this experiment the traveller only goes 30 seconds into the past to appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his experiment was to begin he saw himself apppear in the lab. There would now be two travellers and two time machines. It doesn’t appear that it ends that simply as the “second” time traveller says that he saw a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the trip. It would appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of duplicates see a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior to the start of the trip.

Your time machine weighs 500 lbs and an average man weighs about 180 lbs. So lets say that that the mass is about 700 lbs per traveller. What is the mass of the duplicates and where did the mass come from? What is the result of the duplicates arriving ~simultaneously at the ~same place and time? How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will it decay? Is it a loop? What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-19-2001 07:52 AM

Mr. Vega, I excuse you as you ask. Complete understanding between seperate entities in this world is likely an impossibility. I claim no such moderatorship — I was just attempting to appeal to everybodies sense of ‘proper actions during mutually-benificial social interactions’ (I hate it when I can’t find the right, single word to say what I want to say . . .) . . . attempting to phrase it in a way that hasn’t already been said here . . . obviously, at least in your case, it back fired. I still feel its a good sentiment.

“Effective meandering” appealed to me for exact reason which seems to make you feel it was a poor metaphor. It has the meaning I intend, as I know the language.

———

John T:

Since you are stockpiling examples of written word from this time, whether to bring back to the future or for sources in your own written endeavours, I suggest you make this a two way street — you take our words, so lets have some more of yours.

Do you remember any poetry or verse from after 2001 in your past?

Is there an active market on new books in your time, or has that infranstructure not rebuilt it self? Are most the books available old or new?

Out of curiosity, as a rough judge of character, have you read the works of J.R.R. Tolkien? And did you enjoy them.

Actually, this all boils down to the question the last few posters have been getting at — R U THERE?

All –

Even if John never posts again, this thread would still seem to be useful . . . there is enough conflict here to make it good drama.

I think time-travel is possible . . . others among us think its impossible . . . there are other threads where battles in this war are fought . . . but this particular theatre is far from over.

Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 11:03 AM

CHAD:
((1. You have claimed several times that you will not participate in assisting anyone to get out of ‘death by probability’. Yet any number of the things that you have said could have already caused an individual to do or not do something that will now result in them either dying, or escaping death an otherwise fated death.))

It would help if you could give an example. If you are referring to the conflict and war in your future, I’m not sure I’m specific enough to help any individuals avoid anything. Suggesting there is a war coming is a bit different than saying avoid Washington DC at 3:45 AM on March 12, 2015.

((There is no way for you to know if there is no future world leader reading this and believing.))

Are you sure about that? Besides, I think you can have just as much impact as any “future leader”.

((2. You claim that you have no interest in proving to us that you are a time-traveller. To hear you take such a stance is laughable. Look at what a show you have put on here. Instead you tell us that you only wish us to make us aware of time-travel as a possiblity (see #1 again), or that you only wish to observe us and speak of cultural and religious issues, something interesting to a historian.))

I submit there is no way for me to prove anything on the internet, therefore it makes no sense to desire it. What exactly do you think I could do to prove it to anyone? I am confused by your term “the show”. Do you feel my only goal here is to entertain?

((You came and posted on this site with one intention that was clear as of your first post: to make us believe that you are a time-traveller. You have continued this thread for that purpose alone, and I find everything you have done supports this.))

Again, I am unable to make you do anything nor would I want that.

((As far as wishing to speak of issues regarding our humanity, or culture, it is quite clear that this is not your intention (contrary to what you insist). If you truly wished to do this your first line would not have been, ‘I am a time-traveller’. If you truly wished to do this you would not have continued this thread once you realized that line would not serve your claimed goals.))

I learn a great deal about your culture from the words you write (like right now). What do you think my goals are?

((The entirety of this thread has been: you developing your story.))

I’m not sure I understand this. How would “my story” differ it was “developed”?

((I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence ‘software engineers’, -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today.))

Ahhh…something we have in common. Yes, I felt that way too. However, my job was to go and get it and not debate why they wanted it. I am not a computer expert.

((I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a ‘software engineer’ in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and ‘your time’, and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far.))

A great deal of the computer infrastructure you depend on is based on very old systems and code. One of the reasons I was sent to 1975 was because of the person I met there, not the technology.

((Furthermore, I find the notion that one of a limited number of time-machines would be used in this manner to be nothing short of nonsensical. There are more effective ways to accomplish what you claim in this regard.))

Perhaps you would share them with me. You might be right and I could make your suggestions when I return.

((4. I have, and continue to believe Dr. Hawking’s view in regards to the possibility of time travel if indeed the model of time is what you have suggested, that all possibilities occur in different time-lines, in different universes is the way that time truly is. For this reason alone I cannot accept you. It is entirely logical, and I have seen no good case to counter it.))

I’m not sure I understand what you mean. If you believe in Multiple World Theory, Hawking was not the one who first thought of that. If you do, then I must be real if all possibilities exist. As I recall, Hawking felt that it was possible to build a machine but some sort of vacuum fluctuations would destroy it right before you tried to use it.

((You claim that you have no desire to prove your story to us, yet everything you have done from the moment you first posted here has flown in the face of that.))

I’m not sure that’s true. In fact, I’ve tried to point out on at least two occasions that anything I do (at the request of someone else) to support my claims can be found someplace else on your worldline right now.

((What is more, you bring with you the claim that you will tell us no names, no locations, or any specifics as a result of your supposed ethics. If those were indeed the ethics you were committed to and reasoned with, you would not be here now.))

I am curious about this also. Do you think I should not interact with you for your safety or mine?

((I visit with a pink unicorn in the garden behind my house at night and it talks to me. I would show it to you but it only comes out when I am alone.))

For some reason, I believe you.

RYAN:
((Time travel may be possible, but if you were to time travel, you would NOT land on Earth. You would land in a vacuum of space. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you’d materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is NOT Earth.. it’s space.))

Yes, this is a problem. It was solved by taking a “snapshot” of the local gravity around the unit before leaving a worldline and incorporating it into the sinusoid during travel. The short answer is, you “stick” to the earth but this is only a useful explanation to understand it and it’s not practical. Since the computer system is using a virtual reference, the calculations become flawed. Thus:

1. Based on the accuracy and timing of the “snapshots” the distortion units are limited to how long they can travel before becoming unstable.

2. We must leave and arrive in areas we have prior or future knowledge of in order to avoid massive objects (buildings, water, etc…)

3. The unit has a fail-safe system during travel that drops out in case of a unit shutdown or radical departure in gravity readings.

((Answer this factoid, John, and I will believe you until the ends of the Earth.))

Again, you should not offer this to anyone for any reason.

RICK:
((If John wants a way to prove anything – which from his previous posts he has stated he DOESN’T WANT TO DO – then I am more than willing to look over his proofs. However – just because I were to look something over gives no more meaning to the rest of you than it would if one of you looked his stuff over, believed it then told ME.))

Exactly!

MEL:
((How would someone that came here with no money all of the sudden have plenty of money now? You could have brought the lowest denomination coin of your time with a mint mark anywhere after 2001 and probably convinced almost all of us. At least some people. It would be hard to fake.))

The reason I don’t have 2036 money is because it takes up weight, space and can be faked and I can’t use it for anything. What type of expenses do you think a time traveler would have that I would need so much money for?

SIMON:
((1) Simply inscribe your knowledge of any large scale events (disasters, discoveries, etc etc) over the next six months (there should be at least one memorable example) into a text file.

(2) Encrypt said text file.

(3) Give text file to a custodian. I sure Art Bell would volunteer, he’s very interested in time travel.

(4) In six months time give Art the encryption key and he can reveal what you said.))

The only problem is, now you have to trust the person who brings the information forward.

RANDY:
I’m not sure you really wanted me to answer those questions. If you could be more specific I would enjoy the conversation. Do you believe that faith alone will get you to God? Do you believe in an organized force of evil that works against men’s souls?

13 coming…

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-19-2001 01:00 PM

Thumbs up

John T —

I would like you to answer any of the questions which you feel you can answer. I would not ask were I not curious. You, of course, are allowed to censor yourself and direct the conversation by what you choose to respond to and say.

It may intrest you to read some of the other threads on this bbs, the ones about other topics, like religion . . . and post in them.

But I think I can provide a brief response to your questions to promote further conversation here.

I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There are other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings of ‘faith’ and ‘good works’.

I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God’s plan for men’s souls. Its all part of the plan.

Your next question may be “Why do you believe that?” . . .

My answer is two part:

1. I was born into a family where such beliefs run strong. It feels right to believe what my loved ones believe.

2. My studies since my childhood have done nothing but confirm that such beliefs are at least well founded, if not indicated by the way I understand that ‘things’ work in this reality. By this I allude to many different avenues of the pursuit of knowledge. Recently, the most convincing has been things I’ve learned in my study of physics, of all things . . .

Some scientist say science has made them athiests . . . I say science, as I understand it, has had the opposite effect on many others.

I like to think, and the more I think, the more I become convinced that my beliefs are accurate enough for my purposes.

But, they are beliefs, and I could not prove them to you.

Another reason why I am stubborn in some of these beliefs, the religious ones and other parts of my philosophy is because it feels right — almost as if by intuition or subconscious communications from ‘the other side’.

I don’t think the possibility of TT disagrees in any way with any of the elements of my philosophy.

I think many reading this thread would like you to expound on the elements of your philosophy, John.

I vaguely remember you mentioned being religious . . . am I remembering straight? (I’ll look over the past posts of course, but reiteration doesn’t hurt.) How would you answer your own questions?

Could you talk a bit more on how the ‘many worlds’ view point introduced by the advent of the TT tech. developed in your society affects the religious views of both the masses and the thinkers?

I think that it works with the way I understand things — Falling under the ‘many flocks’ arguement, if nothing else.

You mention gathering written material here . . . so I assume you do a lot of reading — before this trip, in your spare time, did you read much fiction? If so, what genre? Any books from this century?

What brought you to this bbs in the first place?

And here is another character-o-meter question I’d like you to answer: Have you seen George Lucas’s Star Wars Trilogy (bonus points for any of the prequels or sequels)?

Posted by Joe Norris on 02-19-2001 01:12 PM

Question

1: What happens to Bill Clinton between now and 2036

2: What happens to Bill Gates between now and 2036

I am sure these are both headline events that will be talked about for several years to come.

Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 01:14 PM

RANDY:
((I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There are other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings of ‘faith’ and ‘good works’.
I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God’s plan for men’s souls. It’s all part of the plan. Your next question may be “Why do you believe that?” ))

Please don’t think me so cynical. I would never insult or degrade someone’s religious views. My next questions would be “what about knowledge?” I am a firm believer that faith (and good works) is not enough to get to God. There is a mystery we must solve first.

((I vaguely remember you mentioned being religious . . . am I remembering straight? (I’ll look over the past posts of course, but reiteration doesn’t hurt.) How would you answer your own questions?))

Yes, I believe in organized evil. It would sure be easier to carry out an “evil” plan if no one beloved you existed. Just curious, can anyone tell me what “Satan” really means?

Had to answer those quickly. I have nothing but open-mindedness for religious conversation and I look forward to more. I’ll get to the other questions soon.

Thanks.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-19-2001 02:45 PM

Wink

Hi John:

Best I could find is from the Hebrew Ha-Satan, or “the Adversary.”

First, let’s examine what the Bible reveals about the origin of Satan and the demons.

EZEKIEL 28:12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. 16 By the abundance of your trading [rekullatek] you became filled with violence within, and you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God; and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones. 17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor . . .” (NKJV)
REVELATION 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. . . . (NKJV)
LUKE 10:17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.” 18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” (NKJV)
From the preceding Scriptures, we can learn several things about Satan and the fallen angels. In the beginning, this “anointed cherub” was created as a wise, beautiful, and powerful angel. He apparently was one of the two cherubs who cover the mercy seat (God’s throne) with their wings (see Heb. 8:5; 9:5, 23-24; Exo. 25:20; 37:9; I Kin. 6:19-28; 8:6-7; I Chr. 28:18; II Chr.3:10-13; 5:7-8). However, because of pride in his beauty, this cherub’s wisdom was corrupted.

Satan is symbolically called the “king of Tyre” (Eze. 28:12). The coastal city-state of Tyre was one of the world’s greatest traders during Israel’s monarch period. Isaiah calls Tyre “the bestower of crowns, whose merchants were princes, whose traders were the honored of the earth” (Isa. 23:8).

Although the Scriptures don’t define the trade Satan was engaged in, it clearly tells us that because of the abundance of his trade, he sinned. Possibly Satan implemented a system of competition rather than cooperation, which eventually filled him with violence, causing his iniquity.

The word rendered “trading” in the NKJV translation of Ezekiel 28:16 is a form of the Hebrew noun rekulla, which means “traffic” or “merchandise.” This particular form of rekulla is only found five times, all in Ezekiel (Eze. 26:12; 27:20, 23; 28:16, 18).

However, rekulla is derived from the root word rakal. It’s relevant to note that a closely-related derivative, rakil, means “slanderer.” It’s used in this context six times (Lev. 19:16; Jer. 6:28; 9:4; Eze. 22:9; Pro. 11:13; 20:19). The account of Satan in Ezekiel 28 could well involve aspects of both these meanings. In the New Testament, this fallen angel is often called the “devil,” or the diabolos in the Greek (Matt. 4:1, 5, 8, 11; 13:39; 25:41; Luke 4:2, 3, 6, 13; 8:12; John 8:44; 13:2; Acts 10:38; 13:10; Eph. 4:27; 6:11; I Tim. 3:6, 7; II Tim. 2:26; Heb. 2:14; Jam. 4:27; I Pet. 5:8; I John 3:8, 10; Jude 9; Rev. 2:10; 12:9, 12; 20:2, 10). Not coincidentally, the literal meaning of diabolos and its variations is “slanderer.”

It’s possible that through his “slander” and “gossip,” Satan turned one-third of the angelic host against God. We know that Satan tried this approach in the Garden of Eden, when he misrepresented God’s motives to Eve (Gen. 3:1-5). The angelic forces loyal to God eventually had to cast this “anointed cherub,” along with his allies, out of heaven. From that point forward he became known in Hebrew as Ha-Satan, or “the Adversary.”

There is more e-mail me if anyone wants the rest

Peace

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 03:25 PM

Smile

I’m still waiting for you to respond to my questions TT_0. After all, I did put HJYABJ 100 at the end of my post.

-Javier C.

P.S. Now it’s no longer an excuse of not being able to log on. We await your respond.

Posted by Simon Wiggins on 02-19-2001 03:32 PM

>>The only problem is, now you have to trust the person who brings the information forward.

Why if I had a glove sir !!!
Of course you could trust Art to fess up if you were right!

You must be from a very dystopian future to be so cynical

Posted by Nikki Colwill on 02-19-2001 04:57 PM

I just gotta say this is some of the best reading entertainment I have had in a LONG time!!!

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-19-2001 06:10 PM

Smile

Hi everybody. wow! this is a very interesting forum.
for any body wanting to see what a IBM 5100 portable computer looks like they can see one here:

you will have to type it in I guess direct links are not allowed. ((http://mercury.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.IBM.5100.html))
I am hoping this shows up ok and does not offend the moderators.
It is on the other board but I was not sure if the link to the other board was still on here.

Anyway it looks like a very interesting piece of machinery.
It will give you a better idea on the machine John is talking about that he went back to 1975 to get. how big it is and what it looks like.

sincerely,
pamela

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 07:21 PM

To John,

I hope you will get to some of my previous questions, in the meantime I have more.

Why are orphans an issue? It seems war orphans would be pretty old by now.

What is your biggest or gravest environmental issue?

Does distillation remove radioactivity from water?

Do people still watch TV?

Are there any women on your travel team? What is the status of women in your time? (This may only be able to be answered by a woman)Do they hold office? Work outside the home? Get equal pay? Are they safe on the streets at night?
What do women wear for the most part?

Are the Amish alive and well?

What is the birth rate?

Is there an unusual rate of birth defects and if so what kind?

Maybe you should be taking back healthy sperm and eggs.

You said that your culture was centered around the Universities. Weren’t they wiped out in the war? They are in cities after all.

Do you use cell phones? Eat allot of red meat? Drive cars?
Are airlines in operation? Internationally?

Are people pressured (subtle or otherwise) to adhere to a Christian doctrine?

Do police make drug busts? Are there many jails? What kind of criminals are in them?

What kind of public punishment is there? Sounds like New England during religious persecution and intolerance.

Are there Wholistic healers? Herbal medicines? Alternative life styles?

Is there personal freedom?

Is there an IRS and a need to keep a lot of receipts and paperwork around to justify yourself?

Is the same type of currency used? Is ours today good in say 2010 or 2020?

Other than time travel how do most people get around the country? Do people tend to travel much?

Are people suspicious of strangers or all you one big happy family now?

How do most people die during the war? Radiation, starvation? bullet wounds?

I have more but I better quit to see if you will get to these and don’t forget my first posting, please.

Thanks,
lola

Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 07:25 PM

ERNIE:
((ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD
Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 – 500 megawatts), it’s discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

It looks like a prediction. Is it.))

If you can take that paragraph and find a way to make a dollar from it than more power to you.

BLONNIE:
((i would first like to state that i for one have never said you’re an idiot – i said you are aggravating. which is not really a personal problem w/yourself it is just how i perceive you to be. an adjective – not a noun.))

Point taken. I apologize.

((so that’s what this is all about? you come here & want us to “help” you by asking questions.. so you can figure out how -we- percieve things & why we think the way we do but you do not recipricate the efforts. you only discuss things that you care about or that -you- think are important or that -you- think you will “gain” something from. seems rather -one-sided- to me.))

I was hoping it wouldn’t be so confrontational. I don’t see how words can harm either one of us.

((so you return home w/a better understanding while we’re left here w/the same questions we had before? it doesn’t seem very beneficial to -us-..just to -you- (atleast from your statements)).

You must believe that we both have interesting things to say to each other. Isn’t that worth it all by itself?

JAVIER:
((What state do you live in now in 2001?))
I am in Florida.

((Is John Titor your real name?))
Yes, John Titor is a real name.

((What do you look like? Post a picture of your self. ))
No.

((What is your secret agenda?))
If I tell you, it would just be an agenda, which I’m sure, is much less interesting.

((Is this dialogue between people in these posts part of your secret agenda?))
If I had a secret agenda, talking to people would not be part of it.

((Does your younger self realize what you are?))

Yes, he is aware that I exist but he doesn’t know who I am.

((Are you married?))

No but I did have a chance to convince myself otherwise.

((What rank were you in the Army?))

It is the equivalent of Major.

((Where did you go to BCT?))

I wasn’t fortunate enough to go to basic. We were fighting a war at the time.

((What company were you with, and what year did you graduate from BCT?))

The organization of the fighting unit I was in fell under the militia. We fought against the organized army.

((You have any fears? If so, what are they?))

I fear people who want others to take action based on their own emotions and irrational fears.

((What are the rules for fraternizing with people who aren’t from your time; do you make friends easily here in 2001?))

Have common sense and get your job done. Yes, I have friends.

((What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?))

I’m sure I would end up in one of their nice little padded cells while they poked at my machine with a screwdriver. What do you think they would do?

((What would you do if someone attempted to investigate you? Hundreds of people go through these forums a day I’m sure. Some of which can be government. Aren’t you at all worried that it’s only a matter of time before you are found out?))

I don’t worry about that very much. No one believes me anyway. Right?

((And you said; “I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you won’t be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine.” ))

Suppose I told you the space shuttle would have a problem landing at Kennedy tomorrow because something goes wrong with the runway. If someone with the authority to do so hears that and makes the decision to land at Edwards…bingo, your future has changed from my past.

((I appreciate you answering these questions for me John, and thank you for calling me your friend.))

I’d really like to believe that

RICK:
((I want you to understand something – since you’re using our discussions to make a determination of our thinking for when you go back.))

I am not qualified to judge you. I merely said it would be a subject of discussion when I return.

((However, rest assured, if I went to the security office and said, “I have access to a time traveler” I’d get laughed at. I’d have to get in touch with the “right people” to “report” the incident, and even then the skeptics would over rule the “believers”.))

If that were not the case, I would not be posting at all.

((The US government… Russian or any other, would be in the same boat. They would, if they could believe it, GRAB and hold time travelers – checking the veracity of their stories and preventing them from having any interaction with anyone.))

Yes, that’s what I think too. The irony is, I’m not sure the machine will really do anything for them and all I can give them is stock quotes and sports news. (Just a little humor.)

((So – John, my comments about being fraudulent – please don’t take them seriously and please do not think I have anything against you personally, nor wish to discredit you. I only want the honest truth.))

I don’t. Truth is something we all want. Like opportunity, its something you have to be ready for to recognize it.

((John, what would it take to get you to stick around after spring and leave during the next window of opportunity?))

My parents are much better at cards than I am. I fear they may not let me leave in such debt. If I had all the time I needed, I would spend much more time downloading and archiving.

((I fear that another month or 2 may not be enough time to get as much said and discussed as I would like to have.))

I will continue to answer the posts as long as I can.

((In your “world time” have things like “Saquatch” , “Loch Ness monster”, and other reported unusual animals been seen, or captured or explained away. ))

We have our swamp monsters too. In fact, I think it’s interesting that we all respond to the unknown the same way regardless of our cultural experiences.

((Is remote viewing used to gather military intelligence?))

I am only aware of it from this worldline. I don’t know otherwise.

((Are psychics still common? are they used by the government?))

Yes, psychics exist but I don’t have any knowledge of their use by the military.

((Is there a Police Dept as we know it. Have any of your top leaders or politicians been jailed or impeached?))

Yes, we have police but they are organized in smaller groups. Yes, we still have political and religious leaders who find it difficult to obey the law. I would submit to you that the law is only as good as the people’s willingness to apply it evenly and swiftly.

((John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?. ))

Yes, I am pondering posting more of the manual. I am also considering having my departure videotaped and yes, it will be free. My only concern is how it might affect the “me” on this worldline.

((John please respond to my question as to “the prediction” did I jump the Gun? (get ahead of myself).)

I’ll have to go back and take a second look. Post again and remind me.

((One final question? Is there a Global Superpower state and what nation is it.))

Being a superpower only makes you a target. There is an uneasy balance in the world now that everyone “probably” has nukes, chems or bios. We don’t just bomb people for the hell of it anymore. Military power is based on the number of autonomous fighting men who are actually willing to fight.

CRAIG:
((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))

You’re pretty much correct about your statement but actually, nothing I do here will affect my home. I hold myself accountable for any damage I do.

((It seems to me that with the cities under such stresses, people would flock in large numbers to remote areas like Winnipeg (sorry guys) or some other region with plenty of clean water, air and soil. Why is this such a nelected fix? I would also imagine that the network of Intentional Communities (communes?) that took root over the years, would provide infrastructural support to a nation needing to find its “FOXFIRE” roots.))

In my opinion, people “now” take clean water, electricity and their feeling of safety for granted. If they leave the city in search of fresh water they first have to make the realization that fresh water is a problem. It’s much easier to demand someone else owes you fresh water than it is to leave the lifestyle that made it bad in the first place.

((If I was transposed to the 1920’s or 30’s, you would have a hard time keeping me off the streets, out of public places, shops, concert halls, etc. just trying to take it all in. Ditto with just about any other time and place.))

I agree with you. The first time I walked into a “superstore” I cried. I’d never seen so much excess in one place at one time.

RICK:
((It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site were posted by an “anonomyous time traveler” some time back. It fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted the pictures. If he didn’t post them, then he is using them for the basis of his story.))

Those are mine. They were posted by another person who I’m sure is reading this also and would be happy to confirm that.

((John – in looking closely at this device, I see there is a hand control unit – with some sort of screen on it. I assume this is the computer interface through which the device is programmed (or time settings are made). Is that an accurate assumption? What does the display show you (for instance, does it simply show things like time/date calculations, or radiation [probably wrong word] of the fields from the device?))

Yes, that is a remote unit. The unit itself gets hot and “unapproachable” during long travel and you’re usually subjected to about 2 G’s. It gets a little difficult to move around and the hand held unit sits next to you. The unit displays many things but time in transit, time to destination, VGL variance and unit temperature are the most common during travel.

((Also, there are 16 apparent buttons. I have to assume further that these are multifunction keys (that is you press one for an alt/control function and other buttons have names or labels and perhaps even numerical meanings). Is that also accurate?))

Yes, the menus are screen driven.

4

4 I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north—an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, 5 and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was human, 6 but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings, 9 and the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved.10 Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a human being, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces. They each had two wings spreading out upward, each wing touching that of the creature on either side; and each had two other wings covering its body. 12 Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, without turning as they went. 13 The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire or like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures; it was bright, and lightning flashed out of it. 14 The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning.15 As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. 16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 17 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. 18 Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.